Evaluation thus far

So I'm now over a year into owning an RV. Would I have purchased an RV again?

Yes. However, I most definitely would not have purchased this RV. 

The lesson learned here is to inspect the RV you may be about to purchase thoroughly. Pay attention to any and every problem. Pay special attention to any symptoms of water leakage. If you see any signs of water leakage at all walk away.

The question then becomes what do I do at this point?

I basically have two options. Option one is to cut my losses and sell it for whatever I can get for it. Option two is to invest the time and money into it to fix it up.

I have already invested a significant pile of dough into repairing the mechanical problems that the RV had. Those problems are now for the most part taken care of. It still has a power steering leak and could use a new water pump and belts and hoses. It will need two more tires in the rear and the cigarette lighter does not work.

I can do most if not all of that work myself a relatively low cost. One nice thing I see about this RV is that I don't have to hack it up to get underneath it to work on it. It sits so high off the ground I can easily go underneath it.

That is the mechanical portion. Then there is the water leak problem. The question here is how much water damage has been done and is the structural part of the RV damaged?

The worst case scenario is that it is completely rotted and will have to be completely replaced. If that is the case then it still will not cost a tremendous amount of money if my family and I do the work ourselves. I see no reason that we cannot do this work as it is basically the same as doing work on the house. It does not involve the specialized tools and training that mechanical things involved.

Add the above to the fact that I can't really get anywhere close to what I have into this thing out of it nor can I buy another RV in any better shape for that money and the conclusion becomes to keep the RV. I estimate that I will probably have no more than $15,000 into the RV by the time all is said and done. $15,000 seems to be about what it takes to buy a good RV of this size. In my case I believe the massive expenses of maintaining this thing are done with. I anticipate keeping in about another 10 years so hopefully there are many miles that won't cost so much left in this thing.

I look forward to working on it in the spring.

Frozen hot water heater and covered storage

It came in early bout of bad weather this year and I got caught without draining the hot water heater. The water heater froze and was probably damaged. However, I think judging by the water stains on the insulation that it was damaged previously. After the thaw it appeared to be leaking.

I got the system drained except for the hot water heater and filled full of RV antifreeze again except for the hot water heater. I took the drain plug out of the hot water heater and it has been well above freezing for about a week now so the hot water heater is most likely completely drained. I expect to have to replace the hot water heater.  

The RV is now in the covered storage. The storage place does not have sufficient room between the fence and the garage to easily put the RV in it. Took me a long time to get the RV into the tight space.

This project is likely mothballed until spring.

The picture below is water that leaked from the roof onto the bed.

Covered Storage

Yesterday I arranged for renting a coverd parking spot for the RV. There is no way I can complete the repairs needed to get the RV in good enough condition to sit in the weather all winter before it gets too cold to work on it. The spot will be $51 a month. It is good that I reserved it when I did as they are now out of coverd spots.

At this point I would sell the RV if I could get what I have in it out or even close but with the newly discovered water leaks and damage there is only one way to go. It will be done right when it is finally done.

Adventure always has its ups and downs. Stay tuned as this adventure continues.

Cab Bunk Layer Cake

Somebody went nuts with the glue and staple guns putting this thing together.

Rain at the worst possible time

It seldom rains here but has rained for three days. Three days that I have been insanely busy. 

Here is what I saw when I checked on the RV tonight.

The plywood is soaked, the seats are wet. This is going from bad to worse.

Yellowstone Trip

We took the RV to Yellowstone National Park a few weeks ago. This RV adventure or RV trip or whatever you want to call it was great.

After some expensive repairs we headed out.

Before leaving on the trip I took the RV to a tire shop at least three and I think four different times for out of balance tires. They replaced the front tires and balanced the back tires at least twice.

This did not stop the out of balance bouncing but I did not have time to take it back to them again before we left.

It rained Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. The rain was of little consequence except that it showed me where all of the leaks in the RV are. In that aspect the rain was a good thing.

Other than the cost for fuel the RV was the perfect vehicle for this trip. We didn't have time to stop and explore very long so it was great to be able to pile out of the RV to go look at something and then pile back in again. We were even able to bring the dog.

The kids loved playing games while we're on the road and a few times in the campground.

We stayed two nights in Idaho State Parks, one night in a Walmart parking lot, one night in a scary Wyoming campground, and two nights at the Salt Lake City KOA.

We bounced all the way from home and through Yellowstone and to Park City Utah. Just North of Park city the bouncing was getting worse and driving me crazy. I stopped to take a bathroom break and visually checked the tires. I could see the threads coming through part of the tire. Fortunately, a tire shop and Park city was able to get us in quickly and get us back on the road in about an hour with two new back tires. 

This is what it looked like when we arrived at the tire store. The camera was too close so the quality is poor but you get the idea.

Yellowstone is one of those places that everyone should see in their life. There is no place like it anywhere else in the world. The geysers, fumerols, and mud pots are unique. We saw these along with Bison, elk, and a prong horn. We hiked down to the waterfall on the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone.

Yellowstone is not a kid or pet friendly place. Dogs and wildlife don't mix very well. Kids and boiling water don't mix so well either. I knew this going in but my wife has a problem that could cause her to loose her vision and I was not willing to wait on this trip.

The last day in Yellowstone I planned to stay in Jackson, WY that night but the KOA was $128 for one night and another private campground was just as much.

Jackson had so many people on the street it reminded me of Las Vegas. 

We used the All Stays Camp and RV iPhone app to find a campground south of Jackson. When we arrived it was raining, foggy, and dark. The campground was in a wooded area off of the road. We pulled into a spot and went to sleep. We could see nothing and the dark the campground was an isolated and scary place. The dog would not even go pee when I took her out.

I woke up at about 5:00 am and drove on.

The campground would probably not have been scary in the daylight but it definitely was at night. I kept expecting a guy in a hockey mask to show up. 

In that campground I think our big RV was better than a GMC Motorhome would have been due to a bit of a steep grade to the highway. I think a GMC might have scraped on the low clearance bottom. One thing that is nice about our RV is that you can go underneath it and change the oil or inspect something without jacking it up.

Our oldest son is obsessed with video games so we have banned all video games or any other screen entertainment for a time. That meant no electronic entertainment on the trip. He had a hard time with this as we had just started the ban. Things were a little more rowdy than they would have been with videos and video games but the kids saw more and interacted more.

Once we got home the dog ran around the yard like she was insane. She didn't get to run off leash the whole time we were gone so she was going a little nuts. 

What worked well:

• Having a bathroom with us at all times
• I was able to stop the leaks in our fresh water hose by using pipe tape on the connections.
• Being able to stop wherever we were and sleep then go when we wanted to.
• Having our dog with us without having to worry about finding somewhere she could stay or paying to board her. Boarding is expensive for us and very stressful for her. 
• Free camping at a Walmart and at a local park. 
• Discovering leaks in the RV
• Google Maps on the iPhone
• All Stays Camp and RV App for the iPhone
• Rubber band guns we bought at a gas station on the trip
• Bison, elk, and antelope
• Seeing a really strange and beautiful place

What did not work well:

• The last time that we went camping several months ago I neglected to empty the freshwater tank. The water smelled awful and I filled and I drained the freshwater tank several times on the trip to get the smell out. We do not drink the water from the freshwater tank but we do use it to wash.
• 7-10 miles per gallon
• Nearly having a blow out
• The cigarette lighter in the RV does not work and our iPhones have to be almost constantly charging. This meant that we lost at least one mile per gallon from running the generator just to charge our phones.
• Due to an insanely busy schedule we were not prepared to leave and lost a full day of vacation just getting ready to go.
• My son had awful allergies. Benadryl helped but he was miserable much of the time.
• The children think that since it's an RV they can get up and run around while in motion at anytime they feel like it. For the next trip there will be some strict rules regarding when they can get up.
• Leaks in the RV will mean time and money.
• A $60 meal at Yellowstone Lodge and a $45 meal at KFC blew our food budget.
• Staying two nights at the KOA in Salt Lake City made us exceed our budget for campground fees.
• The two new tires blew the overall budget by several hundred dollars.
• The hot water heater would not ignite. This meant that any showers had to be taken at a campground.
• We did not allow computer games on this trip and our teenage son tends to think there's nothing to do if it does not involve screen. He complained much of the trip but then this is to be expected from a 15-year-old.
• For all of the world renowned sites that we saw and places that we went the place that are 10 and 11-year-olds liked the best was the playground at Liberty Park in Salt Lake City.
• My Garman GPS is several years old and gave directions that sometimes were exactly opposite of what Google Maps was telling me.
• Google maps on the iPhone does not work when there is no cell service.
• Apple's maps application did not work nearly as well as Google Maps.

Class C RV Cab Over Bunk Inspection

After reading several blog posts about water damage that was much worse than it first appeared I decided to make sure there was no hidden damage before I put the window back in. If the framing needs to be removed and rebuilt the window won't be going back in. As I have said before, wood is a terrible option for a vehicle.

There is a big piece of plywood that makes up most of the cab bunk deck. That seems like unnecessary weight and may be hiding something. I peeled back the wallpaper because it was loose. Our plan is to remove all of the wallpaper and paint the interior instead.

These boards are not a normal part of a Class C RV

Both corners are damp. This is not looking good.

Not looking good at all

Removing the staples so as to remove the deck. The deck has to come up so I can see what the supporting wood looks like.

Removing the paneling

It looks like there was water damage previously. The damaged plywood has to be replaced and the supporting wood has to be inspected.

Class C RV Front Window Removal

The front window was leaking and the glazing was obviously done for.

My son and I removed the front window. I was pleased to see that there was little to no visible water damage to the wood around the window.

The window glazing was in lousy shape so I pulled it out of the window. It took two trips to two different RV dealers to find some replacement window glazing.

It cost $37 for 12 feet of it. I need to replace it in probably half of the windows.I have now managed to find some online for about a dollar a foot cheaper.

I was not sure what the sticky black stuff between the window glass and the window frame was. The parts guy at the RV dealer checked with the service department and discovered that with the older windows at least there is a special adhesive they used to put the window glass into the frame. It is the same adhesive used for windshields. 

The RV dealership did not have any adhesive but my local auto parts store did. I elected not to buy it at the auto parts store because it was in a metal cartridge that would not fit into my calk gun. I ordered some on Amazon instead.

This meant that I had to put a tarp over that window hole in case it rains before the order arrives. With my old RV in the driveway with a tarp over it I just need o tie out my dog, put a couple of cars on blocks and an old washing machine in the front yard and I will have a true red neck place.

Much of the wallpaper on the inside was loose because of moisture so I scraped off the loose wallpaper. We are planning on eliminating all of the wallpaper in the RV anyway. 

One challenge so far has been removing the adhesive used to seal the window into the RV. Goop gone was very useful in getting this off. It made the adhesive come off a little easier.

I discovered that the front skin of the RV is metal. I thought it was fiberglass or some kind of plastic. But I accidentally scraped some of the paint off and discovered that it was metal in the front. The staples that hold the metal to the wood underneath were basically doing nothing. They pulled right out. I will probably replace them with screws.

Once again after removing the window I was thoroughly unimpressed with the build quality of the motorhome. The part underneath the window is very loose. You can push it and it will move an inch or more.

New Gas Cap

In April 2014 I barely got the locking gas cap off so I replaced it with a new locking gas cap from Walmart.

New Starter Battery

In April, 2014 I barely got the RV started at the storage area so a new battery was in order.

I removed the old battery and the battery tray. The tray was badly corroded. My son spent several hours wearing a respirator with a drill and sandpaper taking all of the corrosion off of it. He did a very good job.

I put several coats of paint on the battery tray and then reinstalled it.

I switched from a side post battery to a top post battery. I did not want to have to change out the terminals on the RV so I used battery terminal covers to get the new battery to fit the old terminals.

We have had no starting problems since the battery replacement.

The battery was from Costco and the job cost around $100.

New Front Suspension

Before you buy an RV look at the front coil springs. If they have blocks in them don't walk but run away from the deal. When I bought the RV it had blocks in the springs.

On our first long out of town trip I did not like the rocking and rolling that the RV was doing. Perhaps I have mentioned by very poor inspection of the RV before I bought it. With old vehicles lousy inspections will cost you dearly. This was the first of several expensive repairs for things I should have seen and paid attention to on the initial inspection but did not.

At this point I found out that there are only a few shops in my area that have an alignment rack large enough to handle a 30 foot motorhome and all of them are pricey. For this job I used Commercial Tire.

In November of 2013 I basically had the front end replaced. They replaced:

The radius arms bushings
The axle pivot bushings
The upper and lower ball joints
Both front springs with heavy duty springs
Cost = $1,958

This was quite expensive for me but Commercial Tire did a great job. It rides like a totally different truck. No more swaying around. It is no sports car but it has a much more solid ride and handles much more safely. It is now a decent driving truck.

Seat Repair

Back in October of last year (2013) I noticed that the front passenger seat was loose. A few dollars worth of bolts later and a couple of visits to D & B Supply and the seat was no longer loose.

One or two bolts had broken or come loose from people using the back of the seat as a step to get on and off of the cab over bunk.

The Purchase

Finally one appeared on CraigsList with the layout I was looking for.

It was a 1992 29' Four Winds built on a Ford E350 Chassis with a 460 gas engine and it was in reasonably good condition. No visible leaks, no bad smells, the interior was used but in good condition.

I've purchased many vehicles over the years and I have a well thought out checklist as to what to look for when inspecting a potential purchase. I did an awful job on this one. In fact, it was the worst inspection and purchase I have ever done.

My mistake was that I got really interested in the guy that was selling it. He was an elderly fellow with an interesting life story. His house was immaculate and well maintained. He had completed several construction projects on the house and was fixing up a 1960's Mustang. I assumed that the RV would be immaculate and well maintained. I was wrong.

I do not fault him as he bought it from a friend probably as sort of a favor and he didn't use it very much. He likely didn't know some of the problems it had but I did a very bad job of inspecting the RV. Had I been more diligent I would have walked away from this purchase.

I didn't walk away from the purchase and $6,000 + later I drove it home. I don't regret buying an RV but I do regret buying this one.

The Search

Over several months I looked at dozens and dozens of RV's online mostly on CraigsList. I visited dealer lots and looked inside virtually all of the Class C's they had. The new ones seemed to start at around $60,000 and go up to whatever some rich fool was willing to pay from there. I remain unimpressed with the used RV's and especially with the new RV's. They seem to be built cheap out of heavy materials and not very well thought out.

I looked at quite a few RV's that were for sale by private parties. A 22 foot Class C in good condition didn't seem all that hard to come by but I had more difficulty finding one with the floor layout I was looking for in good condition for the right price.

Water damage is a major problem with these units as one would expect from using wood on a vehicle. You have to reseal them every few years and most people don't reseal them. Typically they sit unused and often uncovered until a leak develops. Since they are not used the leak goes undetected and causes major damage.

They tended not to have very many miles on them. 60,000 miles on a 1980's model was not uncommon.

Some of them looked good in the pictures and descriptions but smelled to high heaven inside and had more that needed fixed than that worked.

I have the same problem that other buyers no doubt have and the problem that explains why wood is the material of choice. I would really like a big Mercedes sprinter van custom built for me with little to no wood on the inside and none on the exterior. That would probably be $150,000 or more and is why I now have an RV that is mostly wood from the cab back and the frame up.

Which RV Floor Plan?

I looked at dozens of RVs on craigslist, at every major RV manufacturer's website for floorplans, and quite a few actual RV's.

I decided that the best floorplan for us would be one with a bed over the cab, a table that makes into a bed, a couch that folds into a bed, and a bed in the rear of the coach.

We live in an area that is somewhat isolated from major cities so finding this layout in our price range was not easy and it pushed the length of the coach to around 30'.

I wanted a Lazy Daze coach but they don't make this floorplan that I wanted.

The GMC Motorhome

The GMC Motorhome deserves its own entry.

From 1973 to 1978 the General Motors Corporation built the only Motorhome to ever be built by a major automaker.

It was designed by automotive engineers as a Motorhome. It rides about a foot off of the ground on a pivoting rear suspension with the dual wheels in front of each other. The body is all fiberglass and every inch of space is well designed and efficient. It looks like a shuttle from a science fiction movie.

Despite being much smaller than other motorhomes it can sleep six people if it has the right layout because the couches convert into bunk beds.

It is aerodynamic and has front wheel drive courtesy of an Oldsmobile Tornado transmission.

I looked at dozens of these online and one in reality. I was most impressed with the original build quality and fit and finish of the one I looked at. The fiberglass does not leak or rot. it has the 1970's lap seatbelts for the front seat passengers and none in the back. Storage space is limited. You sit right at the front windshield in the front seats. It rides very smoothly and is quiet for a Motorhome. It has a short turning radius and is not very tall.

A GMC Motorhome in good condition runs around $15,000 and they go very far up from there. Since they are so old most of them have been butchered and the original equipment and furniture removed.

The one I looked at convinced me that it was too small for my family but I remain impressed with the design and build quality of these machines.

Which Type of RV to Buy?

It started in an airport in the early 1990's. We saw a VW camper van on display and wanted one but we were many thousand dollars short.

We began noticing RV's after that. After the sale of our last home I began a search for one.

A trailer would've been financially a much better choice. However, we don't have a vehicle that could tow a trailer of the size we would need. The little experience I have had with towing a trailer is not something I have enjoyed. I also had a great deal of difficulty finding a manageable size of trailer that had sufficient sleeping capacity. There are a few fifth wheels that would do the Job but there are too many of us to fit in even a extended cab pickup.

My tow vehicle for a trailer would've had to have been a Suburban or a Ford Excursion. They are the only vehicles with sufficient seating capacity and sufficient towing capacity to pull the kind of trailer I would need.

I don't have either of those kinds of vehicles and the ones in the price range that I could afford have well north of 150,000 miles on them.

One other factor that tilted me to a motorhome was the kind of travel we do. We are not going to one place and staying there for an extended period of time. We like to go to lots of places and spend a short period of time in each place. Sometimes that means that overnight stay somewhere that we aren't planning on exploring. Very few travel trailers have generators but most motorhomes do.

Since we were planning on spending lots of time on the road we figured that getting there should be a large portion of the fun. With a travel trailer the children would be stuck in the seats until we arrive. If we want to have lunch we would have to stop and go back into the travel trailer to prepare lunch. Since no generator was available then lunch would have to be something that did not have to be warmed up.

All made the choice a motorhome. There are two basic types of motorhomes. A class A, a class B, or a class C.

Class A motorhome's are the big bus type motorhomes. I quickly found that most of these are set up for two people. We need to be able to sleep at least five and up to seven or eight. I do not like the solar oven created by the enormous front windshield on the class A's.

A class B motorhome is basically a van and can comfortably accommodate two people at most.

A new type of motorhome that could be considered a big class B is the new sprinter vans. These are the type of motorhome I like the best. Unless they are heavily modified, the outside skin of the sprinter vans is original metal produced by the automobile manufacturer so they won't rot and they are stronger than the wooden sided class A's and class C's. They are highly fuel-efficient. Airstream makes some great sprinter vans and there are several other well-known and not so well-known companies that make some innovative sprinter vans. I suspect that one of these is in my future.

For now the sprinter vans won't work for me. They are new and have not depreciated fully so they are out of my price range and they are set up for two people.

That left the class C. Class C's are the ones that traditionally have the bed over the cab and are built on a van or truck frame. They seem to be set up better for families than for retired couples. The newer models of these have blurred the lines between the class A and the class C. Many of the new ones have entertainment centers above the cab instead of a bed.

Because a class C is built upon a truck frame made by a major truck manufacturer just about any mechanic can work on the engine part of the truck and getting parts for them is not much of a problem. The cab portion of these vehicles is quite strong and should do well in case of a crash. A class A is likely to come apart in a crash.

One of my big concerns with the motorhome was and still is safety. The rear portion of the class C and all of a class A is basically wood which will come apart in an accident. A rollover would be extremely bad in either of them. Many class B's are not much better. Class B's tend to have tops that are put on by aftermarket manufacturers. These tops are often attached with sheet metal screws and will come off in the event of a rollover. While many of the seats in the back of class A's and C's have seatbelts they really wouldn't do a lot of good in a crash because the seats are more like what you would find in a house instead of seats well-suited for a vehicle.

The class B's and C's tend to be overloaded. That is they tend to have more weight on them than the suspension safely handle. Some manufacturers such as Lazy Daze and Nexus don't overload their RVs. For many of the other manufacturers even the newer RVs that tend to have heavier duty suspensions are overloaded with slide outs and other whistles and bells that add so much weight the heavier frames don't do any good.

I visited several dealer lots and many ads on craigslist. My looking at newer RVs both travel trailers and motorhomes left me decidedly unimpressed with the quality and innovation of these machines.

Wood is subject to rot and simply doesn't hold up in a crash. In fact, it is a danger when it breaks. Many of the RVs have flat roofs. Who in their right mind builds a flat roof on a vehicle? Let's make a nice big spot for the water to collect find any hole in it so it can run down and rot the wood.

The 1970's models had some innovative designs but I did not like the running gear of vehicles that old. Thanks to Japanise competition the manufacturers made lots of improvements to vehicles in the 1980's and 1990's. The color schemes in the pre 1990's RV's can be hideous.

I found little difference in the design, layout, and quality of the RVs from the 1990s up through the current models. The truck part of the newer ones is better but not significantly that I can see.They're basically the same thing with a few more slide outs, plug-ins, and a better entertainment system.

There is one type of class A motorhome that was built right and to which the comments above do not apply. It is the GMC motorhome. I'll include a separate post on this one.